Ответ 15

– Как Юрий Шевчук переживает запрет на рок-фестиваль в рамках юбилея Санкт-Петербурга? Когда он возобновит гастроли? Не оказываете ли вы влияние на его творчество?– Как я понял, запрет на его рок-фестиваль был связан именно с рождественским концертом "Рок к небу". Юрий сделал микс из двух своих песен. Он начал петь старую песню "Родина". А после строки "к сволочи доверчива" резко сменил мелодию и без всякой паузы стал петь песенку из своего последнего диска – "Путин едет по стране на серебряном коне…". Очевидно, кто-то из власть имущих решил обидеться за Путина.Отмену фестиваля Юрий переживал тяжело, слег в больницу. Ведь он готовил его целый год, из-за этого отказался от всех гастролей...А что до моего влияния на его творчество... Не думаю, что оно есть. Есть влияние его веры и его боли на его же песни. Я тут ни при чем. Но были случаи, когда он показывал мне новые записи еще до выхода диска. Например, песню "Ночная пьеса" из первой части "Единочества". Он очень беспокоился, что эта песня может быть понята неправильно, говорил, что она ни в коем случае не носит антицерковный характер. Она направлена именно против легковесного, поверхностного, "попсового" отношения к вере. А вы понимаете, что означает слово "попса" в устах Шевчука.

Ответ 16

– "Рок к небу" – это концерт, на котором выступили и вы. Должно быть, проповедь на многотысячном рок-концерте в Санкт-Петербурге тоже была связана с риском подмочить репутацию духовного лица. Но вы все же пошли на это…– Перед началом концерта я специально вышел и посмотрел, что за люди собираются. И все, кого я увидел, оказались мечтой любого лектора или преподавателя. Дело в том, что на Кинчева, Шевчука, Бутусова, Гребенщикова идут не те, кто любит "колбаситься". Это ребятки думающие, для которых пива напиться и побузить совсем не главное.Ну, а затем, между Шевчуком и Бутусовым, и в самом деле было мое выступление. Для чего мне все это нужно? Я не тешу себя иллюзией, что после концерта с участием батюшки все дружно потянутся в храм. В судьбах ребят, внимающих их песням, свой поворот к вере, наверно, еще далеко впереди. И все же мир Церкви станет казаться менее чуждым тем, кто был на этом концерте. Ледяная (прозрачная, но холодная) стена между ними и Церковью подтает. Они поймут, что через эту стену смогли пройти серьезные, настоящие, живые люди. Пройти и не замерзнуть. А значит, и для себя не стоит зарекаться, что, мол, "церковь это только для старушек". До выводов из этого впечатления могут пройти годы и годы. Но понимание того, что для того, чтобы быть православным, не обязательно эмигрировать в прошлое, появится уже сейчас.Нужно искать какие-то общие ниточки – то, что интересно им и что интересно мне. Такие акции могут очеловечить наш образ в глазах подростков. Ведь мы для них – как инопланетяне, живущие в другой вселенной. Когда они увидят священника и музыканта рядом, для них тема Христа станет чем-то более живым, нежели просто тема творчества поэта такого-то. В таком соседстве я не к себе заставляю прислушиваться, а к тому же Шевчуку. Чтобы его же слушатели серьезнее отнеслись к тому, о чем он сейчас пел.

Ответ 17

– А как в церковном мире относятся к этой вашей акции?– Реакция была неожиданно хорошая. Большинство знакомых мне епископов и священников отнеслись с одобрением или хотя бы с интересом. В интернете некоторые "активные миряне", конечно, немного поворчали, но в официальной церковной прессе – довольно позитивные отклики.У меня даже возникло опасение, что грядет "атака клонов", что по епархиям начнут "клонировать" такие мероприятия (что уже и произошло в Запорожье и Ярославле). Перец все-таки должен оставаться перцем, а не становиться основным блюдом. А рок-концерт был, конечно, этакой перчинкой в нашей церковной жизни.Но мнения Патриарха мы не знали.Проблема в том, что прежде пространство миссионерства и пространство обычной церковной жизни были четко разделены. В первые три века христианской истории была активная миссия, но не было еще сложившегося образа благочестия; все бурлило в церковной жизни. А затем церковь стала имперской. Миссия не умерла, но она стала вестись вдали от глаз прихожан: вот здесь империя, где все по уставу и все благочинно, а за границей империи и на ее окраинах работают миссионеры. Как они работают с язычниками – империя об этом не знает и лишь аплодирует их успехам. И, значит, миссионеры были довольно свободны в выборе средств своей работы.Сегодня же впервые церковное и миссионерское пространства переплелись. Миссионеру одновременно внимают неверующие и сектанты, язвительно настроенные студенты и испуганные ими православные бабушки. Выходит, что миссионер должен уметь жертвовать своей репутацией в глазах церковных людей ради их неверующих братьев.Тот концерт в Петербурге был такой жертвой. Но юродство бывает "Христа ради", а бывает "себя ради". Почти год мы ждали ответа на этот вопрос: что же мы такое сотворили на Святках – схулиганили или все же сотворили церковное дело? Лишь речь Патриарха в день Москвы 7 сентября расставила все нужные точки над всеми необходимыми "i".Во-первых, Патриарх сказал, что церковная проповедь может и должна звучать и в концертных залах, и на спортивных площадках. Во-вторых, вручил премию Петербургской епархии, которая при вручении награды была презентована именно как организатор рок-концерта (во всяком случае более никаких других дел этой епархии при награждении не упоминалось). Ну а поскольку на том рок-концерте проповедь произносил именно я [1], то и мое награждение в тот же день тоже оказывается знаком, помогающим понять отношение первоиерарха к этой нашей необычной акции.Подробнее об этом см. в Приложении с. 289.– Ред. ^

Ответ 18

– Excuse me, but what award are we talking about?– This is the Newfound Generation Award. It was established by the Department for Youth Affairs of the Russian Orthodox Church and the Government of Moscow "for work on the spiritual and moral education and enlightenment of youth." The sign of the prize (which, unfortunately, has no monetary component [1]) is the statuette of the "Good Shepherd". The shepherd carries the lamb on his shoulders. This is an ancient image of Christian pastorship, which does not need special interpretation. It is only necessary to note that this is how lambs are carried out, or wounded, or sick, or in danger. This means that the shepherd himself entered the risk zone to save the lost sheep. This is what gives special interest to youth and missionary church-wide conferences: at them, missionaries offer their experiences of preaching in the "risk zone", far from churches, to the judgment of church conciliarity and church hierarchy, and wait to see what the reaction will be. At the end of the ceremony, the rock band "Grandmaster" and Vyacheslav Butusov (rock band "Nautilus-Pompilius") performed in an acoustic version. As it is said in the "Church Herald", "for the first time in the church premises and in the presence of a dozen bishops, songs of rock musicians were heard" [2]. My Anna (the Order) was barren; but since May 1 she has already brought me a hundred rubles for six months, and for a year she will bring 200" (St. Theophan the Recluse. Collection of Letters. From the Unpublished. Moscow, 2001. P. 390). ^Pogosov A. Sermon in the "risk zone" // Tserkovnyi vestnik. 2003. № 17. ^

Answer 19

– But it is impossible that critical voices have not been heard from among the clergy about such an unheard-of novelty as an Orthodox rock concert!– Only from one priest (but a very worthy and tolerant one: it is to his church that the guys from the "Grandmaster" go!) I have heard a negative review. He said that "the situation of a massive, herd gathering of people capable of falling into any aggression is dangerous and sinful. Will not then there be a temptation for a person to think: "This is good, this is it, Christianity. How glorious is it: you can come to a concert, listen to a five-minute sermon by a deacon or archimandrite, then have a good time and consider yourself a morally prosperous Orthodox person?" Moreover, he believes that in general in church history there has never been a special youth policy, adjusting to the tastes of young people. And, finally, he believes that a young priest can be captivated by a sermon at a rock concert and he will go to rock parties instead of serving the liturgy.On the first question, I can note that there is such a risk in any sermon and in any church action addressed to people who are not churched and not churchly. Is it not the same danger that awaits those who baptize people without a months-long catechism? Isn't this exactly the risk of a priest who marries or buries people he does not know? And a priest who comes to the "presentation" of another company or bank, is not able to engender in his listeners – fellow diners and "sponsors" – the same illusion of their spiritual well-being? But just at that rock concert, such a risk was minimal. For the simple reason that Shevchuk's songs are really painful in the conscience. It is precisely with their naked pain that they tear off the mask of well-being and comfort, force the soul to think and repentant, and the latter – with a certain prompting – can easily develop into a prayer of repentance. To tell the truth, I don't know of any priests who go to rock concerts instead of liturgy. But the number of priests who have abandoned the ministry for the sake of business is in the dozens. It began with a necessary and good deed: with the search for benefactors. Then new acquaintances offered to carry out some operation through the accounts of the church, gradually the priest himself mastered all business techniques and removed himself from his rank. So meeting businessmen is at least as dangerous as meeting rockers. But for some reason we do not hear the warnings: "Brother priests, beware of communicating with entrepreneurs, otherwise you will not be interested in serving the Liturgy!" Has there ever been preaching in places of "entertainment" in the history of the Church? – The Apostle Paul preached in the Athenian Areopagus at a meeting of pagan philosophers, and not at all church wardens. And in Byzantium, the "theater" was the place of discussion of intellectuals. The performances presented in such a theater were pre-prepared highly rhetorical speeches or disputes [1]. And these speeches also touched on theological topics.And the fact that in the history of the Church there was no special youth policy – so, maybe we should cry about this, and not be proud of it? Why is it not shameful to adapt to the tastes and opinions of the elderly, but to speak a language that is interesting to young people is reprehensible? I still witnessed the times when church hierarchs attended deliberately non-church and even anti-church meetings and at the same time distorted their speeches there in such a way as to delight the assembled pagan gerontocrats. I mean the Kremlin banquets and receptions on the occasion of November 7 – the day of the anti-Russian and anti-church revolution... I remember how bishops and priests bowed down to the "eternal fire" (it is difficult to imagine a more anti-Christian symbol), and such concessions are sanctified by the history of the Church. The Council of Constantinople in 809 explained that church rules may not be observed in relation to the emperor (according to the interpretation of a modern historian, this means that "the unbending imperial will is a force majeure circumstance that gives the bishop the right to apply oikonomia, if it is not an attempt on the foundations of faith" [2]). "If you see that they [the pagan barbarians] are indignant at something, bear it patiently, especially if the disobedients belong to the upper stratum of the people – not to the ruled, but to those who have fallen to rule. With regard to those who are subject to you, if necessary, you may have recourse to more severe and violent measures, but inconsistencies should not be allowed in any way. When it comes to those who have great power to interfere with the salvation of the whole people, it is necessary to calculate how we, having dealt harshly with them, will not lose them, completely enraging and completely turning both the upper and the lower [against us]. You have before your eyes many examples of human behavior: after all, the doctor often retreats before the severity of the disease, and the feeder does not try to steer his ship against the current beyond the limit, and the one who is entrusted with the command often even unwillingly submits to the pressure of the army. You also know how things stand with us: how a teacher who is forced to endure the disobedience of his pupils in order not to be subjected to their stupid and ridiculous tricks, will spare the shamelessness of the disobedient pupils and succumb to them for a while, if only they would still listen to the lesson" [3].The last phrase is exceptional: usually we are ready for a very elastic "oikonomia", for many, many concessions and compromises, And how many concessions have been made and are being made by our Church to grandmothers and their superstitions! This is a reflection of the centuries-old collision of our church history: how should we treat barbarians – as enemies or as an environment of mission and care? In the Byzantine "Tale of the Imprisoned Demon" it is said that once Abba Langin, having caught the devil, forced him to tell how he took away the monks' chances for the salvation of their souls. Among other intrigues is missionary work: "It is I who send monks to the country of barbarians under the pretext of teaching" [4]. But John Chrysostom imperiously turned to the hermit monk: "Leave your mountains and leave there your fruitless inclination, which can serve neither people nor God. Take your staff and set out to overthrow the idols in Phoenicia" [5].Here I am on the side of St. Chrysostom – "leaven only leavens the dough when it comes into contact with flour and not only touches, but also mixes with it" [6].See: Kushch T.V. Byzantine Theater of the Late XIV–XV Centuries. Some observations // Antiquity and the Middle Ages. Ekaterinburg, 2000. ^Afinogenov D.E. Constantinople Patriarchate and the Iconoclastic Crisis in Byzantium (784–847). Moscow, 1997. P. 51. ^Cit. By: Ivanov S.A. Byzantine missionary. Moscow, 2003. P. 189. ^Durnovo N. Legend of the Imprisoned Demon in Byzantine and Old Russian Literature. Moscow, 1915. P. 13. ^Cit. From: Thierry A. St. John Chrysostom and the Empress Eudoxia. Christian Society of the East. Moscow, 1884. P. 183. At the same time, however, "the apostles remain the only missionaries known to patristic literature. Nowhere do the Church Fathers mention specific people, their contemporaries, who would go to preach to the barbarians" (S.A. Ivanov, Byzantine Missionary Work, p. 71). Even the name of the enlightener of Georgia – St. Nina – was unknown to Byzantine church historians (Ibid., p. 33)... Even more strikingly, the most important advances in the promotion of Christianity outside the empire remained unmentioned by Greek ecclesiastical writers. Such "silence of the century" surrounds the baptism of Ethiopia (6th century), the mission of Cyril and Methodius in Moravia (9th century), and the baptism of Rus' (10th century). ^St. John Chrysostom. Discourses on the Gospel of Matthew. 46, 2. ^

Answer 20

– Father Andrei, you have gained a reputation as a missionary of the new time – an unusual style, boldness of thought, contacts with rockers. This novelty irritates a certain part of the conservative clergy, so to speak. Sometimes you are called a "pop of Russian Orthodoxy", sometimes a "rationalist", a "revisionist" and a "heretic"... – Newspapers like Russky Vestnik call me a "heretic", the editor of which in the old days worked in the ideological department of the Central Committee, and now for some reason has decided to speak on behalf of the Orthodox Church. I am a rationalist only when analyzing our modern church life. Everything that the Orthodox Church Tradition brings with it, I accept both with my mind and heart. It's just that I trust this voice of Tradition more than fashionable leaflets and visions. To compare the testimonies of Tradition with new phenomena that try to make their way into church life is already a rational work. At first, however, it is still a matter of taste: first, when you get acquainted with the next novelty, a sense of taste is born – "not that", and then the theologian simply has to put this feeling into arguments. I am a revisionist in relation to my atheistic past. I really revised those views of mine. Yes, my experience of Orthodoxy is different from the experience of traditionally church people. For me, faith is a gain, not an inheritance. It's one thing: a person from a priestly family, hereditary, his eyes are even blurred somewhere, he is bored with something, bored. I am a revisionist in the sense that I still know how to rejoice and discover the depth of the Church's tradition. I still find something new, unexpected and rejoice.As for the "pop" - this also has its own truth. Pop is something that is popular. And what – should Orthodoxy be elitist, esoteric? Isn't the sermon of the parish priest, chewing something for the hundredth time for the grandmothers, "pop", not a simplification? Why is it considered normal to adapt Orthodox preaching to the level of grandmothers, and an attempt to conduct the same conversation in the language of students is considered reprehensible? It is normal in its own way (although not always reasonable). For several centuries, the word of the Church has been presented as instruction and instruction directed from top to bottom. The sermon was part of the liturgical art, part of the divine service. And it had to be gilded, like everything else in the temple. But outside the church, the abundance of gilding is inappropriate. If you enter a non-church auditorium with this classical pulpit sermon today, your seminary experiments and broadcasts run the risk of remaining with you. Outside the church, you need to speak simply in the language of people – even if this language is clumsy. And the sermon should be different, including a sermon that is not at all like a sermon (for there are people who are afraid of all kinds of invitement and propaganda). There are priests whose unctionary preaching makes me personally sick. But I see that there are hearts (mostly girls') that respond to this touching unction. And I am ready to kiss not only the hands, but also the feet of these priests for their wondrous preaching, which for me personally is not edible at all. But he had the apostolic gift of Pentecost. I don't have it [2]. That is why you have to choose for whom to speak and in what language. You speak in a piously streamlined church dialect – and, having acquired the prayers of some, you will lose interest from others. And here the question arises: whose goodwill is more important for you to preserve or gain – people who are churched or non-churchly? For the priest, the first is more important, for the missionary the second. 9, 22.– Ed. ^My rector, seventy-year-old Archpriest Nikolai Sitnikov, says that "in our time, people have virtues, but no gifts." ^

Answer 21

– Could you recall a similar situation from your practice?– In 1997, pedagogical readings organized by the diocese took place in Arkhangelsk, at which teachers and priests met for the first time. The speaker gave a report on the life of John of Kronstadt, based on his little-known, very personal diaries, which he never intended to publish. And now the following passage from one of them is read: "Lord, do not allow Leo Tolstoy to live to see the feast of the Nativity of the Mother of God, Whom he blasphemes so much." They were just shocked. Vladyka Tikhon of Arkhangelsk turned to me and whispered: "Father Andrei, your report is next, save the situation." What to do? I stood up, turned to the icon of John of Kronstadt, crossed myself, bowed to him and said: "Holy righteous Father John, forgive me, but I do not agree with you." And then I explain that in Orthodox prayer you cannot wish harm to another person, I cite the relevant quotes from the Fathers. I explain that in Orthodoxy holiness and sinlessness are not the same thing, that in this diary entry our Old Testament passion was expressed, and not the ethical maxim of the Orthodox faith. But they are Orthodox! Bearded men in boots and black shirts get up and leave together. In this situation, the choice was necessary. I had to sacrifice my reputation in the eyes of some Orthodox Christians in order not to alienate beginners from the Church.At the very beginning of my path to the Church, I heard words that became decisive for me. Archbishop Alexander, rector of the Moscow Theological Academy, said to me in a private conversation: "We must ask ourselves more often how the Apostle Paul would act in this situation." But this is impossible – we cannot put ourselves in the place of Christ, a person is unable to understand the psychology of God. But why did Vladyka name the Apostle Paul? The Apostle Paul is the apostle of freedom. He was always able to distinguish perfectly between the main and the secondary (and he knew how to value the secondary for the sake of the main thing that shines through him). He clearly understood "where is the Sabbath and where is the man" [1]. The principle of his pastoral ministry: I was like a Hellene with the Greeks, and like a Jew with the Jews [2]. He knows about the freedom with which an intelligent, believing Christian can behave, but he suggests that we limit ourselves in this freedom – for the sake of our weak brothers in the faith. on the contrary, their vote became decisive. You know, you have to end this someday, you can't always follow the lead of grandmothers and their fears. In the end, it is the grandmothers themselves, and the Church as a whole, who are falling into the abyss. When everyone is huddled at one end of the boat, someone is obliged to stand on the other side, otherwise it will capsize. 2, 27.– Ed. ^Cf. Matt. 9, 20.– Ed. ^